Episode 5 - Co-Regulation & Intentional Movement w/ Erin Clarelli (Part 1)

 Erin U: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Growing Through Autism. I'm Erin, and today I have an incredible guest. She is an occupational therapist, but not like every other occupational therapist that you've met. Mind you, my son Noa is 18. So we've worked with a lot of different people and not saying that any of them are bad, but she is It's amazing.

 

Not only does she have a wealth and depth of knowledge and experience, but what really sets her apart is her mindset. That mindset of presuming competence, fully respecting the people that she works with,  talking to them and treating them age appropriately regardless of what things look like on the outside.

 

 Just  embodying that mindset and  being mindful of inclusion,  and treating people like people. It's huge and it goes a long way and it shines through not just in when she's working with people, but when she's just talking to anybody or engaging with anybody and it's huge.  And mindset has been so strong for her that now she's created a program also for professionals because she's seen the impact that it makes.

 

In her practice. So regardless of whether you're an occupational therapist or speech therapist or whatever it is, mindset can be helpful and she's sharing that. She's advocating for  our autistic loved ones, advocating for our community. And so I'm so excited for you to meet Erin Clarelli. She's amazing. 

 

I love her.

 

 Erin C: What a warm welcome. That feels so good. Can you do that for me every morning? Just amp me up. Oh, so great. Yeah. We've got Erin squared here, 

 

but, I think, you know, that was beautifully, beautifully said. I definitely like to highlight that I advocate with and for this community. Right. My biggest teachers are the, the individuals that we serve here at Sunrise.

 

Um,  and yeah, I'm just so excited to be here. So thank you for having me.

 

Erin U: Oh, I'm so, I'm so happy to have you here because I feel like you have so much to share so much goodness. For people who don't know you, I'd love to just like  share one of my first experiences with you so that people can get a feel for you. So sorry if it's a little bit long, but  I met Erin at the Family Speller Camp. Yes, the same camp that I'm always talking about because it's so good. But Erin and what she brings is part of that magic that I'm always talking about. She definitely is a huge contributor to  making it so impactful and so incredible for everybody who's participating.

 

 And so what I remember is one of the first camps that we went to,  the campers were going to be shooting like a bow and arrow. And I remember, he has open communication, open communication when it comes to text based, and he made it really clear he wanted to shoot the bow and arrow, and he was excited and kind of like Noa, sometimes when that excitement happens, it ends dysregulation or you don't have  as much control over your body as like, maybe you would when you're not as excited.

 

And so,  he's trying to get himself there, but he's struggling. And Erin just comes in with like such a sense of ease and like this calming, but confident presence and confident, like confident in your ability to support, but then also confident in like,  I know that he wants to do it, and I believe and I'm confident that he can do it.

 

Doesn't matter what it looks like to get there, but I'm confident that he can do it. And it's like, she didn't have to say it, you could feel it as she stepped in.  And so then I'm watching her just gradually,  helping him focus on each individual step, telling him, you know, I know that you understand it's just about coaching your body through each step and it helps slow him down.

 

It helped him motor through each step. And he shot that arrow. And I, I remember crying afterwards cause I was just like, Oh my God, that was amazing. Like  feeling all of that. And I could tell he felt good. She felt good. And I think everybody just. felt it,  so when I think of Erin, like  every time I'm with her, I feel that.

 

Erin C: Thank you.

 

Erin U: I know thinking about it, it's so  impactful. And like, we've worked with you for six months. Like I've known you for a while and I finally found a way to work with you. And in the short six months,  not just Noa, but me and Noa have made a lot of progress, like from session to session. I keep feeling it and I'm just always like in awe.

 

I'm just so grateful.  

 

 Erin C: Thank you. It's, it's really great to hear those outside perspectives because, you know, I do a lot of self reflection of like who am I and what am I bringing to this community and how am I contributing, you know, in my own unique way? 

 

 My point in saying that is essentially  that's just something that I think I was never really taught, right? I think it was self taught for myself. In like believing in my capabilities because,  through my childhood and just my journey of being where I'm at now, it's like I kind of didn't have a choice, but to  figure it out and be confident in myself.  Like I have to be my biggest supporter.  So I think that has just totally overflowed into my work. And  as people will point it out to me of like, you just  come in and you just are like, you believe in them.

 

 There's no doubt in what they're able to do. And it's not something that I'm  even consciously aware of anymore. It's just like, I'm here. We're going to do this. We're going to make it happen because I believe in you, you know? So that's really meaningful. When you said you were going to share a story, I was like, Oh, which, where are we going with this?

 

Which one it's going to be. And you know what, I remember that activity. I remember that moment now that you shared it. But for me, it felt so natural and  just what I do in the day to day that  I almost forgot about it. So thank you for bringing it back up. But  to answer your question of like who I am and how I got here,  I went through my OT schooling.

 

I always knew I wanted to work in this community. I had started out in a gymnastics program,  in my best friend's uncle's  sports facility.  I think this community could really relate to just the path nudging you to where you need to go, right?  You just say yes to things and you're like, Oh, okay. This makes sense. This is totally in alignment with what I'm doing. So that's kind of been every step along the way.  Not to make it too long. I graduated, I got  the typical cookie cutter OT job. I was working in an outpatient clinic where  families come and  drop off their kid for an hour and then pick up and in the schools.

 

And  I just  knew deep down inside, there was so much more than what we were providing based on the systemic boundaries we had. Because of insurance or because of, you know, the funding for the school district or like the beliefs in  both of those areas.   Mindset work  for parents, for ourselves, as professionals and the individuals we serve is so huge because we are working against beliefs that have been ingrained so strongly in our society  and in our schooling.  So, there was just  this innate nudge of like this isn't right, I know there's more. So, long story, even longer I found another clinic, it was working that way.  Things happen again where that crumbled because of systemic challenges. And that led me to Sunrise and I was like, I just need to create a business for me to work in myself and just make the impact I know I can make. 

 

And now three years later, I have a team of four other OTs that work with me. And an amazing network of community.  Like we're connected in so many different ways and different professionals that are doing this like kind of parallel, but we've all just merged together of like, hey, we're together.

 

We're doing our own thing. We love that autonomy as our own individual selves. So,  now I've gotten to the point where like, okay, I thought I could do this on my own. Like,  gotta kick that ego out the door. I need to figure out how to,  reach more people. Right. And instead of saying yes to every family that comes across my plate and just like drowning and trying to get everyone high quality service as much as I would like to be able to do that.

 

I'm like, I need to make a more systemic change. I need to make a change. In the people that are serving these communities,  and that's what has led me to, mentorship and really helping OTs reprogram their beliefs of what they've been taught in school,  what they're taught in their first jobs and their mentorship.

 

I'm in  so many, Facebook groups or communities with OTs and I'm still seeing language that I, like, for me, it's just so mind blowing that people are still saying like, Oh, they don't have the cognitive ability to do this, or they don't understand. So we need to work on these foundational and like, I'm over on the other side of the screen on Facebook, like, Oh, like picture Anger, Inside Out, you know, and that's where my mindset and like personal work comes in of, all right, how, how are we going to change this?

 

Because coming in angrily or like dismissing their thoughts isn't going to change anything. We need to really. Help them do their own personal reflection  because I think I'm, I'm biased, but OTs are like, so adept, like we're so trained to be doing this work and all it takes is connecting those dots of what we learned in school separate from one another.

 

You connect it. It's like,  You know,  so that's what's led me here. That's my long winded version.  It's got me connected with such amazing people like you and Noa and  all the community connections we have. 

 

 Erin U: Then is It sounds like I don't know if you would call it perspective or maybe your vision of how you start out as an OT and what you envision for yourself,  going through that process and evolving,  and understanding  the, the value of mindset. Is that  what kind of led you to,  to developing a program for other professionals.

 

 Can you tell us maybe what that looks like?

 

Erin C: Yeah, definitely. Good question.  I know my own  ups and downs of that,  starting as a new grad, feeling excited and then be like, Oh, this isn't what I thought, you know? And then starting at a new clinic and be like, I found it, I found the place,  those ups and downs.

 

Just like in my like early years of development and teenagehood and all that of, I need to learn how to manage setbacks. I need to learn how to find resiliency in times where I don't think it's even possible. Where I'm just like,  what am I doing? The system is broken when you feel defeated.

 

So I think that was like  an underlying experience that I wasn't really consciously aware of until more recently.  I was just doing it as survival and leaning into therapists and  leaning into reading self-help books and podcasts,  and that felt very separate from my career path.

 

It was more like personal. And I put it over here,  and then seeing that and experiencing it and then talking with other clinicians and then even taking students that are like coming through for their fieldwork rotations and are still like in their last few months of schooling and hearing they're still going through the same things.

 

There were moments,  repeated moments, little like windows of light of like, Oh my gosh, like this makes sense. Oh, here's another person that's saying this, this makes sense.  It was like, probably five or six of those where I was like, Oh, this is what we need to be doing.  This is where we need to  come in and change the system instead of waiting all these years and trying to change people's beliefs,  in a way that  Is very top down.

 

We need to come in and  see them as a human. See their experience and give them the knowledge. It has to be hand in hand. Then that's where my two  worlds kind of collided. 

 

 Erin U: How you work with people and working on yourself. And it's like that work on yourself, whether you realize it or not, totally translates into working with people because I feel like that Noa.  I came to a point where I'm doing all the things that I'm trying to control all these things.

 

And I finally just felt like, Oh my gosh, am I even helping? Cause I don't know. I mean, I'm sure I was in some capacity, but it just felt so heavy. And once I was like, you know what, maybe instead of focusing on him and him changing,  focusing on myself, cause I can only really control myself and then really doing work around mindset,   resiliency, like all those things that we talk about.

 

All these personal development kinds of things and going inward and reflecting.   Once I started doing that to myself, I would also share some of what I was learning with Noa, right.  Just talking, cause I always feel like it's helpful to share and talk, but then I started seeing and feeling a difference in when we did work together.

 

Even when maybe it felt like things weren't moving as fast as I wanted. It didn't feel like that heaviness.  I definitely see that correlation between  that work on yourself and it pouring into,  everything else that you do. 

 

Erin C: And I, I want to highlight  the work that, you do on yourself is really hard to carve out the time. Especially as a parent of a neurodivergent child. Like you're saying you, you just wanted to like do everything for him and like make everything quote unquote better, right?

 

And I think I've seen it time after time where it's like you get that initial diagnosis and it's okay What do I have to like it like your nervous system goes into that fight flight, right? Likely fight. I need to figure this out. I'm gonna fight to figure this out. I'm gonna provide every service I'm gonna like work really hard to  change because you're right,  that is the narrative when you first get that diagnosis and what you know, the medical professionals and society tells you is  we need to change this or we need to fix it when in reality it needs to be seen and understood and validated.

 

And then the skills are built.  Not to change, just build on  the strengths that the individual already has.  It could feel cliche if you're listening of like, Oh, I know I need to work on myself, right?  You have to fill your cup first before filling up someone else's is so cliche.

 

And  could give you a knee jerk reaction. So if that's coming up of like, yeah, okay lady, like sure. I'm gonna work on myself and Right, like you can have both It doesn't need to look at be like this whole like I'm fully in and I'm like doing a seven day retreat .  There's little bite sized things that you could do in the day to day as you know a professional or a parent so

 

Erin U: What could somebody do, like those little bite sized things? Any suggestions? 

 

Erin C: One of my favorites,  especially during times of dysregulation when I'm supporting this community is to just bring awareness to my feet.  I'm going to feel my body on the floor.  I am connected to something because a lot of times when dysregulation happens with our loved ones, it's like, you're not even in your body.

 

You're so focused on how am I going to get this individual safe? How am I going to get them feeling good or you're thinking about  I'm out in the community. What are other people thinking?  There's so much going through your head that you're not even in your body You're just in that  fast thinking mode. So in those moments  you could still be thinking about that stuff and addressing it and figuring out how to  support the situation, but hey, I feel my feet on the ground.

 

I feel the balls on my feet. I feel my heels. I feel my toes, go.  That took all of like five seconds. So it's those quick things. Another thing I like to  do a quick just like a mindset shift is If not in dysregulation, because this one takes a little bit longer, but Why?  I ask myself like why am I doing this?

 

 Where is this urge to either  hold tight like you're saying and be like, oh we need to do this right now.  Why do I feel like I need to do this right now? Is it because I'm  intuitively sensing that yeah he's in his zone and he really wants to work on whatever we're working on. Or is it because I'm like, oh my gosh we didn't work out yesterday.

 

And now we need to get our workout moves in or you know, or I say work out because that's a lot of the work we do right then intentional motor stuff. But it could be anything like right like am I trying to get him in the car really quick because I know he needs to get to school and it's like is like a 10 to 20 minute buffer  really going to make or break  the whole day.

 

So, pausing and asking why.  And then for therapists too, it's like, why are we working on certain goals? Is it because  insurance is saying they need to work on this goal? Is it because  a family came in and they were like, we need to work on fine motor.  And you just listened to that. You didn't advocate like, Hey, let's look at some of this other  praxis stuff first.

 

So why is like my favorite question? I'm like a little toddler, you know, it's like, why, why, why does it exist? You know, but I asked myself it all the time. But then I think it can lead you, kind of guide you a bit better instead of kind of just wandering aimlessly trying to do things for the sake of doing them. 

 

And that just pause of curiosity of why is  what breaks our loop of being in that lower part of our brain, the survival brain, because it brings in logic.  That question of why connects you to that logic brain. You're like, Oh, I don't know why actually.  And it resets us. It  breaks our own motor loops too. 

 

Erin U: In the past, I didn't think about me being part of  a motor loop or having a motor loop, but even  in those times of dysregulation,   we react the same way, those feelings of however we typically react, they come up and it's like, I think

 

practices, like you said, really feeling your feet and pressing them into the ground or trying to pause and ask yourself why. It  takes you out of that reactive state. And like you said, it gets you more intentional. And then I think then it's easier to answer those questions of how do I support this person through , versus just that,

 

oh my gosh, what am I going to do? You know?  That's so good. I know I use breathing a lot.  Sometimes as I say things to Noa, I'm also saying them to myself. So I'll be like, no, we're just going to focus on our breath because it's going to physiologically help us calm down. And it gives us something to focus on,

 

that's not whatever's going on. And I'll breathe. And sometimes I just start breathing now and I do it so he can hear the breath. And sometimes I hear him breathing and sometimes not, but almost every time I hear him. Or see him  make an effort to  focus on that and calm himself down, slow himself down.

 

And it helps me too. That way, I don't get reactive. I feel like the breathing is my version of my feet on the floor, but I'm going to totally try that.

 

 Erin C: You could totally do those two together too.  Like I'm just taking one big breath and I'm pushing my feet into the ground on the exhale.  I would love to comment on the breathing and modeling for Noa  as an OT,  zones of regulation, regulation strategies that's like drilled into my mind as a new OT, right?

 

It's like that was the main thing we did for regulation. So these individuals have probably gone through so many different therapies, there's different people telling them. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. Everything's fine. Take a deep breath,  so when we piece together everything that we know of the mind body disconnect, like how frustrating it is it that like, hey, take a deep breath and okay I get it, but I can't, you know, because the diaphragm is a muscle and our lungs. All of that is intentional. So  coaching the motor of deep breaths when we are regulated is another great strategy.

 

So in those moments,  I've seen specifically with Noa where we're both modeling those deep breaths. We sit there essentially for those listening or watching. It's just  right. It's like an audible exhale. That felt so good right now.  You'll see that maybe in the moment he's not taking those exact deep breaths with me. And we're not sitting there saying like, take a deep breath with me. You know, it's just, we're modeling with no expectations. And then maybe 30 seconds to a minute later, you see his shoulders go,  right.

 

Sometimes it's just a parasympathetic response of like, Hey, like my nervous system automatically triggered that. And that's okay. However, we get that breath to just exhale and engage that diaphragm is huge. So I just want to highlight that these strategies that you're using for yourself, try to avoid placing a demand on the individual, your loved one or your serving,  to do it.

 

You could externally model it and say like, Hey, I'm feeling my feet on the ground right now. This seems to help me.  Or you could say  I'm just taking some deep breaths,  modeling and narrating. You could even say , I'm feeling my stomach expand and relax. Again, not putting that demand modeling and

 

 Erin U: And I think that's so important about the delivery, not coming out as a demand and,  using modeling, narrating.  I think it goes so much farther. Because there's something about any little thing that feels like a demand. Even if it's something I know Noa wants to do. It's like, once I'm like, okay, do this thing, then it's kind of like,  I don't know if it triggers that different part of the brain that's harder to gain control of, you know?

 

Erin C: Yeah, yeah, and demand,  I think that could be a taboo word  I also want to clarify that we're not saying like antecedent to behavior or any of that kind of language. It's really like,  it's a demand on the nervous system. And then the nervous system perceives it as a threat. And then  that motor response is automatic.

 

 So, you know, for anyone,  like a demand for us of going up on stage or even getting on this podcast, right? Like, it's like my heart rate increased and  I had to slow my body down, even though I know I'm safe and I'm choosing to be here.  It's just this automatic  pattern that happens because these individuals are often they want to do what we're asking them to do.

 

They really want to be engaged in the activity and learning and getting their body to move. So they put a lot of pressure on themselves. So I think that if we're gonna we're getting there next, I'm kind of pulling us into it, of that's why also this mindset work for me has really overflowed not only in to parents and professionals, but the individuals we're serving and building this resiliency.  And  talking about it. And I know you and Noa and your whole family embraces this. So I'm curious your perspective on it. 

 

 Erin U: I feel like just from experience that whatever mindset and energy that I bring to whatever it is I'm doing, it definitely affects Noa. I mean, in any situation affects whoever I'm with and what I bring. And when I think about Noa, and I'm presuming competence.

 

I believe you want to. I'm here to support you through it. And an energy of like, if we do it, great and if we don't great, but we're showing up versus , yes, I believe presuming competence, but we're going to do it. You know, it feels different. So I think it, for me, it's that combination of mindset and energy.

 

It either will empower him to push a little extra when it does get tough. And It could also, when I'm coming with that,  we're going to do it. Or my mindset doesn't feel as strong that day, for whatever reason, it, I just project my own limiting beliefs on him. So it affects him either way. So I try to make an effort to  really be mindful  going into situations where  we're working on something or even day to day stuff where I'm making an omelet and he's coming and he's watching. So I invite him to help. Even that, I try to be mindful in those instances as well. But it definitely, it definitely makes a difference. 

 

Erin C: And I think there's a lot to be said in honoring your humanity, is how I like to say it. If you come in and you're having a stressful day, maybe you missed your cup of coffee or you didn't get to eat lunch yet.  And you're working with someone or supporting someone.

 

You can say that like, Hey, you know what? I'm a little bit off today. I'm going to try my best to be here and be present and be a good person, good co-regulation partner with you. But if you sense that I'm a little more like frazzled or frenetic, that's why,  like explaining that and an age appropriate way.

 

 I'll say that to a six year old too. I'll say like, Oh, you know what? I'm having a hard day, but I'm going to do my best. And I'm here with you. So laying that foundation is really huge too, because it's showing the humanity and it's okay to show up in a way that isn't your best self every day.

 

And every day is going to be different and it ebbs and flows. Yeah, it's good for them to see that and feel that and hear from you like, Oh, well, you're experiencing that too. So you said co-regulation partner just in case people don't know what a co-regulation partner is, if you want to explain that.

 

Erin U: Yes. So,  speaking about like energies and how our mindset and what we're saying, this all ties into co-regulation. So if you've been in the therapy world, you may have heard co-regulation when kids like  in development as a baby.  We co regulate as a soothing mother or father, skin to skin contact, all of that.

 

I believe, there's a lot of people out there that believe that co-regulation exists through the lifespan.  There's some 40, 50 year olds that I know that still can't self regulate. Like we need each other. We need sense of safety, which is a term called neuroception of how our subconscious mind perceives other people.

 

So things like body language or even  my breathing rate or my heart rate, all of that. Like Erin, you are processing subconsciously. You don't even know, right? And I'm doing the same to you and it's building this sense of safety within one another and even environmental factors, colors in our environment,  jagged edges in our environment, all of that could make our nervous system perceive a threat.

 

It's that a primal part of our body. So  co-regulation, I think  exists everywhere and you can't have self regulation without co-regulation. And no one is ever like, Oh, I've achieved the pinnacle of self regulation.  I don't need anyone to regulate. So  I honestly, I stay away from the word self regulation a lot and I just go to co-regulation.

 

Yes, I could regulate myself in like an isolated environment. If I'm feeling stressed, I could go to a quiet space, do a meditation.  But I can't do that unless my husband is able to take care of dinner.  We're all so interconnected that co-regulation is, is huge. 

 

Oh, that's such a good point.  And like, sometimes I think, especially in the past, I think, Oh, eventually I'm going to know how to  self regulate and all the things. And no, I think we all ebb and flow through all of it. And it's almost  just learning tools, how to  co regulate  in different situations. What works for us. And like all these things that we were speaking about prior are all co-regulation tools, right? Like by speaking and showing up as your true self and speaking to the individual is at an age appropriate level or speaking to them about what's happening in their body or coaching their motor. All of those are co-regulation strategies.